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	<title>Comments for Sustainable Melbourne</title>
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	<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com</link>
	<description>The City is Re-inventing Itself</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Should we charge people to attend the Sustainable Cities Round Tables? by Simon Kerr</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/seeking/should-we-charge-people-to-attend-the-sustainable-cities-round-tables/comment-page-1/#comment-9874</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=3090#comment-9874</guid>
		<description>If cost recovery is not an issue, there still remain three other issues. 

1) The waste that may occur from (a) the cost of a venue that is unnecessarily large, and (b) left-over food and drink. Short of encouraging us all to drink more, the only way to avoid this for certain is to have a charge that acts as an incentive to turn up. But see issue 2.

2) Access to this forum. Some people can pay, some can't or not easily. Charging will reduce access to this forum for some, and therefore it depends on the underlying philosophy of these forums. The economists are undoubtedly correct that we value what we must pay for (though we can, of course, value things for which we have not paid). But in a world of unequal access to resources, not all can pay, or more correctly, the cost to them of the nominal charge is disproportionally greater than it is for me. And then there are the arguments from critical theorists on the commodification of human activity...

3) Finally, any solution needs to be administratively straightforward, given Ferne's time constraints.

Conclusion? 

Administrative certainty and environmental bottom-lines require people to pay for these fora. This will add to the administrative cost of course.

Access and participation require a very low or no charge (again, assuming the costs can be met elsewhere). 

Given these choices, I'd opt for the 'no charge', that is greater participation accompanied by a little increased uncertainty, and perhaps wastage. Eco-fascist states aside, its never going to be a perfect world!

A useful mitigation strategy may be to explain the costs on non-attendance. I was surprised by the numbers above (250 registered, 80 turned up!). That information alone would make me much more aware of my responsibility to turn up or advise otherwise. At least we are dealing with a part or the population whose ethical concerns are already reasonably well developed; why otherwise would they turn up when there is so much TV to watch!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If cost recovery is not an issue, there still remain three other issues. </p>
<p>1) The waste that may occur from (a) the cost of a venue that is unnecessarily large, and (b) left-over food and drink. Short of encouraging us all to drink more, the only way to avoid this for certain is to have a charge that acts as an incentive to turn up. But see issue 2.</p>
<p>2) Access to this forum. Some people can pay, some can&#8217;t or not easily. Charging will reduce access to this forum for some, and therefore it depends on the underlying philosophy of these forums. The economists are undoubtedly correct that we value what we must pay for (though we can, of course, value things for which we have not paid). But in a world of unequal access to resources, not all can pay, or more correctly, the cost to them of the nominal charge is disproportionally greater than it is for me. And then there are the arguments from critical theorists on the commodification of human activity&#8230;</p>
<p>3) Finally, any solution needs to be administratively straightforward, given Ferne&#8217;s time constraints.</p>
<p>Conclusion? </p>
<p>Administrative certainty and environmental bottom-lines require people to pay for these fora. This will add to the administrative cost of course.</p>
<p>Access and participation require a very low or no charge (again, assuming the costs can be met elsewhere). </p>
<p>Given these choices, I&#8217;d opt for the &#8216;no charge&#8217;, that is greater participation accompanied by a little increased uncertainty, and perhaps wastage. Eco-fascist states aside, its never going to be a perfect world!</p>
<p>A useful mitigation strategy may be to explain the costs on non-attendance. I was surprised by the numbers above (250 registered, 80 turned up!). That information alone would make me much more aware of my responsibility to turn up or advise otherwise. At least we are dealing with a part or the population whose ethical concerns are already reasonably well developed; why otherwise would they turn up when there is so much TV to watch!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Local action &#038; Network - 3rd Melbourne Social Forum this weekend by Uplibialt</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/models/3rd-melbourne-social-forum-this-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-9864</link>
		<dc:creator>Uplibialt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 05:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cp2.kalypsoweb.com/~ecoibcom/sustainablemelbourne/?p=55#comment-9864</guid>
		<description>Hi
I'm going to buy a new car. Wish to have an up market car, but don't know for sure what to choose... Can smb advise me something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />
I&#8217;m going to buy a new car. Wish to have an up market car, but don&#8217;t know for sure what to choose&#8230; Can smb advise me something?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Buy Nothing Day this Saturday November 29! by tom</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/movements/buy-nothing-day-this-saturday-november-29/comment-page-1/#comment-9852</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=2815#comment-9852</guid>
		<description>I would propose doing this as often as possible.  Every day in which it is possible should be a non-consumption day.  Think about what your true needs are and refuse the false needs that are instilled in you by the system and by advertising.  Be radical.  Be different.  Have some spirit.  Cultivate forms of refusal.  Do your part to eliminating the **** that is taking over our world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would propose doing this as often as possible.  Every day in which it is possible should be a non-consumption day.  Think about what your true needs are and refuse the false needs that are instilled in you by the system and by advertising.  Be radical.  Be different.  Have some spirit.  Cultivate forms of refusal.  Do your part to eliminating the **** that is taking over our world.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should we charge people to attend the Sustainable Cities Round Tables? by Paolo</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/seeking/should-we-charge-people-to-attend-the-sustainable-cities-round-tables/comment-page-1/#comment-9843</link>
		<dc:creator>Paolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=3090#comment-9843</guid>
		<description>Charging for these events will eventually lead to the formation of a dependence on the money that is generated.
The amount charged will then inevitably increase over time.
Attendance will not necessarily increase as a result, it may even drop.
I certainly won't be attending as regularly as I do now if there is a charge of $10.

I turn up now both because I am interested to learn about new things in sustainability, and because the event is free.
I will turn up usually regardless of whether I think I might enjoy the topics on offer or not, because the event is free.
In any case, I learn something new every time, and am usually glad I attended.

Perhaps with the RSVP's there should be different tick boxes provided to respond with, to enable event organisers to gauge the degree to which people intend to attend, perhaps something like: (3) I hope to attend if I am not busy, (2) I will probably attend this event, (1) I will definitely attend this event.  Then, event organisers might be able to then cater for just the number 1's, and if more people turn up, then so be it (the drinks finish early!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charging for these events will eventually lead to the formation of a dependence on the money that is generated.<br />
The amount charged will then inevitably increase over time.<br />
Attendance will not necessarily increase as a result, it may even drop.<br />
I certainly won&#8217;t be attending as regularly as I do now if there is a charge of $10.</p>
<p>I turn up now both because I am interested to learn about new things in sustainability, and because the event is free.<br />
I will turn up usually regardless of whether I think I might enjoy the topics on offer or not, because the event is free.<br />
In any case, I learn something new every time, and am usually glad I attended.</p>
<p>Perhaps with the RSVP&#8217;s there should be different tick boxes provided to respond with, to enable event organisers to gauge the degree to which people intend to attend, perhaps something like: (3) I hope to attend if I am not busy, (2) I will probably attend this event, (1) I will definitely attend this event.  Then, event organisers might be able to then cater for just the number 1&#8217;s, and if more people turn up, then so be it (the drinks finish early!).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should we charge people to attend the Sustainable Cities Round Tables? by Ferne Edwards</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/seeking/should-we-charge-people-to-attend-the-sustainable-cities-round-tables/comment-page-1/#comment-9833</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferne Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=3090#comment-9833</guid>
		<description>Thank you to everyone who has replied so far. I really appreciate your input and I think this is an issue that resonates a lot with free social justice/ environmental events - you want them to be accessible to all as the topics are so important and should involve everyone - but when they're free people are less likely to commit to. This is also interesting in terms of the anti-consumerist argument which advocates for people to spend their time in money-free ways, correspondingly designating these activities as not so important or worthwhile for many. (Comments welcome again!)

I'm not so concerned with covering costs by charging for the events but am more aware of the commitment to attend. I currently do (or at least try time-permitting) send out reminder emails a week before the event and I'll certainly strive to do this in the future. As for the charge being too high for some, maybe there is some way to still encourage these people to attend for free - but on what grounds exactly? As these events are one small part of my position at VEIL its very hard to juggle personal details for the number of people who RSVP (250 people RSVPed to the last event and only 80 showed up!) so time constraints need to be considered. Any thoughts?....

Thanks again,
Ferne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you to everyone who has replied so far. I really appreciate your input and I think this is an issue that resonates a lot with free social justice/ environmental events - you want them to be accessible to all as the topics are so important and should involve everyone - but when they&#8217;re free people are less likely to commit to. This is also interesting in terms of the anti-consumerist argument which advocates for people to spend their time in money-free ways, correspondingly designating these activities as not so important or worthwhile for many. (Comments welcome again!)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so concerned with covering costs by charging for the events but am more aware of the commitment to attend. I currently do (or at least try time-permitting) send out reminder emails a week before the event and I&#8217;ll certainly strive to do this in the future. As for the charge being too high for some, maybe there is some way to still encourage these people to attend for free - but on what grounds exactly? As these events are one small part of my position at VEIL its very hard to juggle personal details for the number of people who RSVP (250 people RSVPed to the last event and only 80 showed up!) so time constraints need to be considered. Any thoughts?&#8230;.</p>
<p>Thanks again,<br />
Ferne</p>
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		<title>Comment on Backyard Aquaponics Workshop by birgitte</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/events/backyard-aquaponics-workshop/comment-page-1/#comment-9831</link>
		<dc:creator>birgitte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=2583#comment-9831</guid>
		<description>hi
I am very interested in the backyard aquaponics workshop you run, i missed the workshop in november and was just interested to know if you were going to run another one at some stage?
Thank you 
Birgitte</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi<br />
I am very interested in the backyard aquaponics workshop you run, i missed the workshop in november and was just interested to know if you were going to run another one at some stage?<br />
Thank you<br />
Birgitte</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should we charge people to attend the Sustainable Cities Round Tables? by John</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/seeking/should-we-charge-people-to-attend-the-sustainable-cities-round-tables/comment-page-1/#comment-9830</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=3090#comment-9830</guid>
		<description>Timing and notice more important than charge for attendance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timing and notice more important than charge for attendance.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should we charge people to attend the Sustainable Cities Round Tables? by Tim Cotter</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/seeking/should-we-charge-people-to-attend-the-sustainable-cities-round-tables/comment-page-1/#comment-9829</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Cotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=3090#comment-9829</guid>
		<description>Hi Ferne
I'd pay $10 to attend, I think the sessions are very worthwhile. 
Alternatively, I'd be happy with there being a cash bar instead of complimentary drinks, if cost recovery is a focus.  However, this would not handle the problem of people not turning up.

Have a great festive season

Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ferne<br />
I&#8217;d pay $10 to attend, I think the sessions are very worthwhile.<br />
Alternatively, I&#8217;d be happy with there being a cash bar instead of complimentary drinks, if cost recovery is a focus.  However, this would not handle the problem of people not turning up.</p>
<p>Have a great festive season</p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should we charge people to attend the Sustainable Cities Round Tables? by Olivia Tattam</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/seeking/should-we-charge-people-to-attend-the-sustainable-cities-round-tables/comment-page-1/#comment-9828</link>
		<dc:creator>Olivia Tattam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=3090#comment-9828</guid>
		<description>I certainly think there is some merit in charging for events so that hopefully people will assign more value to the event and be less likely to not turn up. 

I have been involved in organising a number of free events and although we don't want/need to charge we are thinking of introducing a nominal fee to discourage the last minute pull out and to avoid wastage of resources (ie. food, materials). 

Perhaps if you charged a fee you could make it refundable for those who turn up??

Reminder emails to those who have rsvped about 1-2 weeks before is also effective because then you are getting cancellations a little earlier and hopefully have some time to make some adjustments to the event. 

Cheers
Olivia</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly think there is some merit in charging for events so that hopefully people will assign more value to the event and be less likely to not turn up. </p>
<p>I have been involved in organising a number of free events and although we don&#8217;t want/need to charge we are thinking of introducing a nominal fee to discourage the last minute pull out and to avoid wastage of resources (ie. food, materials). </p>
<p>Perhaps if you charged a fee you could make it refundable for those who turn up??</p>
<p>Reminder emails to those who have rsvped about 1-2 weeks before is also effective because then you are getting cancellations a little earlier and hopefully have some time to make some adjustments to the event. </p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Olivia</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should we charge people to attend the Sustainable Cities Round Tables? by Lydia Lange</title>
		<link>http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/seeking/should-we-charge-people-to-attend-the-sustainable-cities-round-tables/comment-page-1/#comment-9827</link>
		<dc:creator>Lydia Lange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sustainablemelbourne.com/?p=3090#comment-9827</guid>
		<description>I have now attended two Round table discussions, one of which I RSVP'd too and one of which I just 'turned up', I RSVP'd to a third (the most recent) however was ill on the date and failed to attend. I completely understand the rationale behind charging/ making things ticketed in order to ensure attendance (and make most efficient use of resources) but have to say, that I would no longer attend - resource stretched as I am - the additional fee would be enough to dissuade me. As it is, my financial situation often prevents me from attending other conferences, forums and symposisums (I am a trainee with a dependent) and I relish the chance to be exposed to the industry/academy, thinkers, and movers and shakers at the round table events - these small snippets are enough to keep the fires burning and generate heated conversation and actions for the months in between. Perhaps we could generate some discussion around alternate solutions to the resourcing issue? I will put mu thinking cap on over the break - Happy festive season to all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have now attended two Round table discussions, one of which I RSVP&#8217;d too and one of which I just &#8216;turned up&#8217;, I RSVP&#8217;d to a third (the most recent) however was ill on the date and failed to attend. I completely understand the rationale behind charging/ making things ticketed in order to ensure attendance (and make most efficient use of resources) but have to say, that I would no longer attend - resource stretched as I am - the additional fee would be enough to dissuade me. As it is, my financial situation often prevents me from attending other conferences, forums and symposisums (I am a trainee with a dependent) and I relish the chance to be exposed to the industry/academy, thinkers, and movers and shakers at the round table events - these small snippets are enough to keep the fires burning and generate heated conversation and actions for the months in between. Perhaps we could generate some discussion around alternate solutions to the resourcing issue? I will put mu thinking cap on over the break - Happy festive season to all.</p>
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